This article contains major character or plot details.

The Umbrella Academy may have started off with each of the Brellies dancing on their own to Tiffany’s “I Think We’re Alone Now.” But the fractured siblings ended the series together, doing what they do best: unintentionally causing the end of the world, but stopping it just before it does.

“I wanted to show that families, even with time apart, can always come back together,” explained series creator, showrunner, and executive producer Steve Blackman. “They’re the Hargreeves family. They love each other.”

As Season 3 ended with Allison (Emmy Raver-Lampman) teaming up with Sir Reginald Hargreeves (Colm Feore) to reset the timeline, the siblings began Season 4 as powerless adults, truly on their own. “This is the first time in their lives that they really had to grow up and it’s definitely changed them,” said Blackman.

But as Ben (Justin H. Min) and Jennifer (Victoria Sawal) find each other and put The Cleanse into motion, the siblings learn that in order to save the world in this timeline, they have to cease to exist — entirely. In other words, when Ben and Jennifer come together to form The Cleanse monster (because their bodies are made of Ben’s Marigold and Jennifer’s Durango that cancel each other out), the siblings realize that all the Hargreeves Marigold has to be eliminated to set the world right again.

All of them — Viktor (Elliot Page), Luther (Tom Hopper), Diego (David Castañeda), Allison, Klaus (Robert Sheehan), Five (Aidan Gallagher), and Lila (Ritu Arya) — agree to let The Cleanse consume them in the home where the Hargreeves family grew up, sacrificing themselves for the greater good and for the one true timeline to be restored. [*Editor’s note: To see all of the cameos in that final park scene, check out our Easter eggs list here).

But no one will ever know … except those of us watching. What does it mean to be a superhero then, if no one knows what they gave up to save the world? Blackman, the cast, and Gerard Way, creator of the Dark Horse comic series, sat down with Tudum to consider if there were ever a timeline where Ben and Jennifer could’ve lived happily ever after without The Cleanse, explain what happened on the Reginald and Abigail’s home planet, and shed light on whether the Brellies died or … something else.

CHRISTOS KALOHORIDIS/NETFLIX

When did you know the ending for the Brellies, and did you always know they’d have to cease to exist in order to restore the timeline?

Steve Blackman: I knew from the very beginning –– when I first got the show –– that I had an idea of how the ending would be. I wanted to explore the notion of, “Are you really a superhero if no one ever knows that you exist? What is the definition of superheroes? Are you truly a superhero if no one ever knows that you’re the ones who saved them?” And I like the idea of: What would they be remembered as? What would it feel to them, to never be remembered? What would it mean to the world?

So I wanted an ending where I didn’t want them to “die” because they don’t technically die. But they will cease to exist in a way that no one will ever know that they ever were in any timeline, in any place. So there’ll be no memory of these people. The only memory exists in the family that survived, but the world will never know all the sacrifices that the Umbrella Academy made for them over many, many years, many, many timelines. That they were the anomaly in the universe that had to be taken away, that they were the thing that Hargreeves released and started, and they were the reason the world was not the right way it should be … I wanted to subvert the expectation [that] the hero has to win in the end, or the hero has to lose in the end. I thought this was a slightly different way to go. I hope the fans like it.

Can you paint a picture of what it was like on set, filming the last scene with the Brellies when The Cleanse takes them? I heard it was 3:30 in the morning.

Blackman: There were two things going on that night. One, everyone was truly exhausted. They had stood in that circle for 13 hours with an incredible amount of coverage. They were getting very, very tired. It didn’t hit them that this was the last time they’d be together until very late in the night, towards the end. And we were going to do the final shot — the window shot, as we call it. I said, “Guys, I just want to let you know before we do that, this is the last time you’ll ever be together as actors in this scene. We still have to shoot a bit more, but none of you’ll be together again.” And there was a moment where I could see their faces, where they go, “Oh shit, this is it.”

Then, all that tiredness went away, and there was just one final look between them. They did a really wonderful final take, and you could see in the looks that it wasn’t just them playing their roles at that point. The actors themselves felt the sense of, “Oh wow, this is really the last time we’ll be together.” And just after we finished them, we blew up the set because that was part of it. So it was a very emotional night.

How did you all support each other after that last scene was cut?

Blackman: We hugged it out, and there was such a level of exhaustion. Everyone went home. As we started finishing off individual shots of each of them, that was more emotional. The next day, Allison had her final scene, just with her and a few other people. Then I clapped her out as an individual, and we said, “This is your final scene.” And once that hit, they all had tears in their eyes and they realized, “Oh wow, this is the end.” So I think it was more emotional when they ended individually, but I think that night was just so overwhelming for so many reasons.

CHRISTOS KALOHORIDIS/NETFLIX

How did the cast react when they read the finale script for the first time?

Blackman: We actually didn’t table-read that script. We were so behind. I got a lot of great messages from them, but I held the ending off. I do this every year. I don’t want to give them too much notice about the ending. So they didn’t get the end-end moment until the day before. I wanted the emotion to feel a bit more raw in the moment. I didn’t want them to overthink it, and I think they appreciated it. You can see on the shots that the emotion’s pretty raw and real. The tears.

What do you admire most about your character and their journey till the end?

Emmy Raver-Lampman: She’s so tenacious, so fiercely loyal, and even though it doesn’t seem like it, Allison has incredible maternal instincts. At the end of the day, she loves this ridiculous family so much. They all do, and they all show it in different ways, but Allison has so much power, and I love that time and time again she continued to find and understand her own voice more and more as the show went on. And I just think that’s really beautiful, especially as a Black woman portraying a Black woman on TV.

David Castañeda: He somehow always stumbles upon the learning lesson, even if he doesn’t know what it is. And at the end of Season 4, you see him appreciate family, and his powers only come secondary to the people around him.

Tom Hopper: [Luther’s] a big golden retriever or Labrador, really. I just admire his loyalty. He is always the one who’s trying to keep the family together and get the family back together. And for whatever reason, whether it’s saving the world or just the family reunion.

Ritu Arya: I feel like everyone needs the experience of playing a superhero in their life. Even if it’s not on TV, do it in the mirror. Do your mirror work, you’ll feel great.

In the post-credits scene, we see eight marigold flowers spring up. We can assume it’s the Brellies, right?

Blackman: Not necessarily. You can assume many things from that. We can assume that some essence of Marigold still exists somewhere in the world. It may do nothing ever again. And it could just be flowers, or it could be what’s left of them because there happens to be eight flowers. And a couple of them kind of turn into each other. But I’m leaving it to the audience to decide what it really means. Does that mean there could be more of the Umbrella Academy or is it just that a tiny bit of their essence does go on?

Do you hope fans will find some comfort in seeing those?

Blackman: I hope so. I also think some fans might be offended by it. I think it’s the right ending — the right coda, I should say — for the end of the show.

Why did you wait until this final season to explain how Ben died, and the Jennifer incident? Was there ever any version where they could just live happily ever after, and The Cleanse didn’t happen?

Blackman: No, the Jennifer incident was such a big thing in the graphic novel, and every year we played at how the kids felt this tremendous guilt. But they never discussed it, and they didn’t realize they were brainwashed to feel like they were responsible and never to discuss it. So the fans definitely wanted to know what the Jennifer incident is.

To be honest with you, Gerard and Gabriel [Bá, illustrator] don’t know what the Jennifer incident is. This is my interpretation of it. They’re going to do something slightly different in their graphic novel. But they were very gracious and said, “Go do your thing, and we’re going to do our thing. Our graphic novel will continue past the show.” I just thought it was a very important thing to end. It was one of the big mysteries of the season. Fans of the graphic novel especially wanted to know, but also the fans [of the show] wanted to know what happened to Ben. We all know Ben died, so I thought it was important to explain it.

Did you always know how Ben died? And did Justin?

Blackman: Justin didn’t know until he read the scripts this year. I had a few conversations with him. But it really evolved. I knew Ben died, and I had different versions of it. I presented them to the writers, and together we came up with the final version of it. We talked about a lot of different ways it could have gone down, but this felt like the right way.

Justin H. Min: I’ve been like, “Steve, are you ever going to tell us?” And he did. He did. The thing is, everyone thinks we know. We don’t know! We find out two days before we shoot the scene. I was like, “Whoa!” I was literally in my apartment in Toronto reading and screaming by myself. I was shocked, but I think it makes a lot of sense.

CHRISTOS KALOHORIDIS/NETFLIX

Can you explain why and how the original timeline broke and why Abigail [Hargreeves’ wife, played by Liisa Repo-Martell] feels like it’s her responsibility to set it right?

Blackman: The real idea was she created a God particle in her mind. And she didn’t realize that, when she created the God particle, she created the anti-God particle. And it was too late to save her world. Whatever happened with Marigold and Durango in her world killed everyone. Anyone who could get away escaped. She died from it. Hargreeves [was] heartbroken, couldn’t bear to see her die, so he took her with him. But he knew that Marigold was special and he thought Marigold was powerful enough to release. He had a plan that Marigold would eventually come to his aid. And it ended up being the essence of these immaculate conceptions of 43 women who were touched with Marigold on Earth and had these children, which he collected and kept seven of.

So there was a plan afoot from him in the very beginning, to have these extra fighting units — extra-powerful people to help him in his crusade to get back his wife. I don’t think he could control it the way he thought. And clearly, he couldn’t control his kids. But he did release that Marigold in the hope that it would bring about these special children. He just didn’t realize that Durango would come along with it.

And that’s why Abigail feels like it’s her job to fix because she unleashed it.

Blackman: Right. So she feels that she did the ultimate sin and said to him that she felt he had no right to bring her back. She didn’t ask to be brought back. She believed she should have died for her sin. The original timeline broke [because] there was never supposed to be Marigold on Earth. And when the Marigold made its way from Hargreeves’ home planet along with him to Earth –– when it impregnated these women and they had these special children –– that began the shattering of the timeline. So from the moment Marigold was released and these children were born, the timelines start to shatter and we became millions of alternate timelines. And the only way to put them back together was for them to cease to exist.

What exactly happened to Hargreeves and Abigail’s home planet?

Blackman: Gone, destroyed … It doesn’t exist anymore. Very few people survived. Hargreeves and a few other people got away, and Abigail was saved, but everyone else suffered from The Cleanse disease. And The Cleanse did exactly what it did to Earth on that planet. [Because Marigold] and Durango together created The Cleanse monster, the same kind of thing. And their whole planet was consumed faster than ours was. Abigail was at fault because she created [Marigold], which she thought was powerful, not realizing she unleashed the anti of it at the same time. She was a wonderful scientist and probably smarter than Hargreeves.

CHRISTOS KALOHORIDIS/NETFLIX

It’s a major reveal that Hargreeves erased the kids’ memories and he’s the one that killed Ben. Did he really believe he was doing it for the greater good?

Blackman: We have to remember, it wasn’t this Hargreeves that shot Ben. It was the Hargreeves from the other timeline. I think this Hargreeves understands why it had to happen. In other words, he probably would’ve done the same thing. Because he’s willing now to kill Ben in this timeline because he says Ben and Jennifer can never be together. Durango and Marigold can never be together. So I think he would’ve done the same thing.

Does Klaus ever find out what happened to Ben since he wasn’t there when their memories got restored?

Blackman: We don’t show it, but I assume that somewhere along that van ride, on the way there, someone says, “What happened to Ben?” And Klaus says, “Yeah, what happened to Ben?” And [they say], “Well, all right. He killed him. He erased our memory.” I think that conversation happens off-screen. The fans will ask that question.

Why did you want to pair up Lila and Five this season?

Blackman: OK, so that’s my big swing of the year that I’m wondering if the fans will love or hate me for. I felt that Five had to have a love story. I mean, he’s a 64-year-old man in the body of an 18-year-old. So we thought he could have a love story. And I thought, “How can he have a love story? He’s not the kind of guy who’s going to date.” I thought Five needed to be with someone, whether it be a boy or girl. We thought we had an opportunity with Lila. And we tried it. I don’t know how the fans are going to take it.

I wanted him to kiss Lila because they’re extreme opposites and they hate each other. But really, they are remarkably similar. They’re both assassins, and they both went through the Commission. So they really do understand each other. And I thought, “How would we get them there?” It would take years to get them to appreciate each other. And I thought, “OK, that’s what I’m going to do.” I went and had them lost together for seven and a half, almost eight years together [to] see if something grows. And it did grow. By the time they kissed, they’re so sweet at that point. You could believe that they would be together. We wouldn’t let them rehearse the kiss. We got him to the point just before the kiss, and then we let them do [it] on the day and it was just perfect.

Aidan Gallagher: Oh man. He has an unrelenting selflessness, but I guess you have to if the world’s ending. It’s the most important thing, so you’ve just got to push forward. I think Five doesn’t know who he is or how he relates to things. If he really digs down, he is in a dark place and so long as his family’s OK, then that’s the only thing on his list to check off. It makes this season really beautiful because his character arc [goes] from not having a purpose to the relationship with Lila giving him a purpose. It’s really a beautiful thing to see a character go through. And I think it’s really relatable as just a universal human struggle. That was definitely the emotional center for the season.

You mentioned you hope the finale raises a lot of questions about being a superhero. What does being a superhero mean to you and to our Brellies?

Blackman: It means different things to different people. Some people think of the more traditional way, someone who goes out and saves people and puts themselves first. I don’t define it. I always saw this show as a dysfunctional family show. And I think they’re gifted people who have different skill sets, but they do really care about each other and they do care about the people around them. They do try to save the world. They risk their lives many times in many iterations. So by that definition, I think they are superheroes. I’m just not sure if they think of themselves as superheroes.

What do you hope fans are feeling when they finish the finale?

Blackman: I would love them to still love the family and not feel let down that we ended it the way we did because no one forced me to end it that way. I felt this was the right ending, and I hope the fans agree with me that this makes sense in the whole scope of the show, that this had to be the ending. They make the ultimate sacrifice to save everybody, and that really is a superhero thing.

I hope the takeaway from the fans is that this is the right decision. But beyond that, I hope they love this family as much as I do. And even if they don’t love the ending, they’ll love the family for years to come. I’m going to miss this family, and I think the fans will too.

To that end, how do you feel now that it’s over?

Blackman: I’m sad. It was such a wonderful part of my life. I’m ready to go on to the next thing. But I’ve never enjoyed writing characters as much as these guys. It just felt like this family lived in my head for eight years. So when it was over — and I think it’s hitting me — it really is over. I miss thinking about their voices and what would they do in this scene and who would hang out with who and what happened to Luther, and [if] he’s still stripping. I just had so much fun. I’d dream about them and laugh and get up in the middle of the night and write something down. I had a lot of laughs. And everyone says it, but I just had such an amazing cast. They were so giving and good to each other and to me and the crew. We worked with most of the same crew [the whole] time. So it was a true family. I miss that the most. I miss all of them now, even.

CHRISTOS KALOHORIDIS/NETFLIX

What will you miss most about the show?

Hopper: Just the people. 100%. I’ll miss getting to play this character with these guys. That’s the biggest thing.

Castañeda: The comfort of knowing that I have another season with this character to come back to and to see where it goes. I’ve learned so much from the people around me, the crew, the cast, the directors, the writers, the showrunner, Steve. It was like going to school every day, long hours, very intrinsic scenes and action sequences that I feel like just made me a better artist.

Raver-Lampman: We really got to do everything in this from dramatic scenes to comedy, to green screens to action, to doing our own stunts, and learning weapons, and dancing, singing. I really got to just explore everything that I possibly could present as an actor on the show. It required everything, in the best way, and I loved having to draw on so many different aspects of who I am as an actor to be a part of the show. It’s really remarkable.

Robert Sheehan: The money! Ah, no. That’s the joke answer. I won’t not miss the wages, I’ll be honest. I’ll miss the people working on it, the atmosphere. The people that I found there were absolutely joyful and cheerful and having a laugh. So it was lovely.

Gallagher: Like all things in life, you remember the best moments and you don’t want change in the moment. You want to stay in it. So I’ll look back at this the same way that I look back at everything in life and yeah, it was a beautiful chapter and an incredible privilege to have grown up as a person and as a dramatic actor within this context. I think I got really lucky.

Min: The cast, our crew. I mean, they are really family … but I will miss being on set with them, laughing with them. All those times.

Elliot Page: It just means so much to be here with the group of people that I’ve spent the last many years with getting to be a part of this wonderful show. I really just am feeling so lucky and such gratitude that we got to have four seasons. I had the privilege of playing this incredible role and getting to connect with fans, and it’s really nice.

Arya: I will miss the cast and everyone involved. It’s been just such a beautiful group of people. Not just the cast, but all the crew, all the creators, the fans. It’s just made this experience unbelievable.

Gerard Way: Honestly, I really loved just all their enthusiasm. It’s a great group of people and they have fun. And because I was never standing in the way of that, on purpose, it was a choice. So it got to grow into this beautiful thing that was its own thing.

This interview has been edited and condensed for length and clarity.